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Voice and symbols, the chicken and the egg, which came first? (“Conversations with Children” 3)

Background of the Story:#

That Friday, my son's school dismissed around 3 PM. To attend the lecture by Researcher and Professor Zhuo Xinping, I asked my child's teacher for leave and picked my son up early from school to listen to the lecture titled "Humanity in the Digital Age: Frontier Lecture Series (Season 2, Lecture 2)" (starting at 3 PM).

Researcher Zhuo Xinping's lecture covered several aspects: Introduction: The Evolution and Formation of Humanity; 1. The Origin of Humanity: Speculation and Discovery; 2. Humanity and Digitalization, Compliance; 3. Humans as Machines; 4. Characteristics of the Digital Age and Human Existence; 5. Humanity and Artificial Intelligence: Machine or Human? Conclusion.
The main core argument is that our era is a digital age (language and symbols can be digitized), and understanding humanity needs to be analyzed from objective, subjective, and holistic perspectives; in the vast objective universe, humans are insignificant, and the meaning of humanity lies in its subjective existence and the existence of social groups. Humans and their Earth are also very small compared to the entire universe. For humans, without self, there is no meaning; the universe does not express its own meaning; everything is about human existence, observation, discovery, and understanding. The meaning of humanity lies in the construction of the human world and its way of existence. The universe may be the thing-in-itself (unknowable), and our understanding of the universe is only an infinite approach to grasping its truth; humans are beings that explore the unknown, and human wisdom lies in maintaining and continuing their existence, rather than self-destruction. Among other points, Researcher Zhuo mentioned that language is a symbol, and symbols can be digitized, meaning language can be digitized, and human culture can be digitized.

After the lecture, Professor Zhuo was very kind; my son proactively asked him a question (actually, I didn't hear the conversation between Researcher Zhuo and my son clearly at the time, and part of the content was my son's recounting): "Which came first, the language symbol or the pronunciation?" My son said that Professor Zhuo's answer was that phonetics and symbols appeared simultaneously, similar to the question of "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" In fact, both the chicken and the egg appeared at the same time.

The Question My Son Asked#

After the lecture, we went home. At dinner time, my mother praised my son for daring to ask questions. My son asked me why Professor Zhuo said that phonetics and symbols appeared simultaneously, similar to the "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" question.

My Answer#

First, I want to present a perspective beyond the question.#

Son, do you know that Professor Zhuo is a top scholar in the country, but he also appears very kind and humble, without any airs, not looking down from a high position? Many seemingly ordinary people you have met before, like Professor Li Qiuling, are also top scholars in the country; perhaps the more knowledgeable a person is, the more they realize how little they know and how much they do not know, thus appearing very humble. Similarly, I believe that my understanding is just what I currently consider a reasonable explanation, which may not be correct and is only for your reference. Perhaps, many times, what matters about a question is not the answer, but the process of exploring the answer to the question.

Secondly, regarding the question itself, it can actually be viewed from two aspects.#

The Relationship Between Symbols and Phonetics.#

Professor Zhuo's viewpoint may be that language symbols and phonetics appeared simultaneously. Imagine if in a primitive tribe, you and I went hunting together. When we see an animal we have never seen before, a "rabbit," if we only draw a symbol without a pronunciation, we still cannot communicate because if different people have different pronunciations for the rabbit's symbol, then when we refer to the rabbit, there will be different pronunciations, making communication impossible. Therefore, for the same symbol, it is best to maintain a single pronunciation for ease of communication. Similarly, if a phonetic sound has different symbols corresponding to it from different people, for example, for Tuzi, /ˈræbɪt/, there can be countless symbols corresponding to it, then when someone says Tuzi or /ˈræbɪt/, you would not know what the other person is trying to express. From this perspective, the relationship between phonetics and symbols exists and appears simultaneously.

Which Came First, the Chicken or the Egg?#

Scientific research seems to suggest that the animal closest to a chicken is a bird, and birds evolved from dinosaurs.
From a scientific perspective, regarding the question of which came first, the chicken or the egg, the general view is that the egg came first. From the perspective of scientific evolution, a bird that is close to a chicken but not a chicken laid an egg, and this egg underwent a genetic mutation, evolving into a chicken. Thus, the egg came first, followed by the chicken. Another view is that the chicken came first, as only when an animal evolves into a chicken does the egg it lays become a chicken egg, rather than a dinosaur egg or a bird egg. Therefore, the chicken came first, and then the chicken egg.
Professor Zhuo's view seems to be that the relationship between the chicken and the egg is interdependent and exists simultaneously. Just like the relationship between a mother and child in the most basic sense, the mother-child relationship is interdependent; only when a mother gives birth to a child can that woman be called a mother, and the child becomes the mother's child. The egg laid by a bird is a bird egg. This animal, which is a "chicken" formed by genetic mutation from the egg, is not a chicken until it lays a chicken egg; it is merely a species between a bird and a chicken; when the chicken lays an egg, it becomes a chicken; and the egg laid by this chicken is called a chicken egg.

The Relationship Between Chicken and Egg and Symbols and Phonetics#

Thus, from this perspective, perhaps it is what Professor Zhuo believes, that the relationship between symbols and phonetics is like the relationship between chicken and egg.

Is Language Conventional or Innate?#

In fact, regarding the relationship between symbols and phonetics, I would like to add one more perspective. Regarding the origin of language, Plato believed that there are two different ways of origin: one is created by the divine, ultimately known by humans and integrated into human culture, which can be understood as some words in language being innate; the other view is that language symbols are agreed upon by people. Similar to what was mentioned earlier, when encountering an animal while hunting, we see the rabbit hopping, and perhaps we agree to call it Tu or /ˈræbɪt/; at this point, it can be understood that some words in language are formed by agreement among people.

Finally, embrace possibilities and avoid rigid thinking.#

Of course, just as Professor Zhuo's lecture content opens up possibilities, we should also embrace various possibilities; my answer is just one of the possible explanations.

References:

  1. Humanity in the Digital Age: Frontier Lecture Series (Season 2, Lecture 2):
    "Understanding Humanity in the Digital Age," Speaker: Researcher Zhuo Xinping, Discussant: Professor Wang Xiaosheng.

  2. See also: Which Came First, the Chicken or the Egg? (Rational Analysis)

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